{"id":19244,"date":"2011-06-20T01:01:01","date_gmt":"2011-07-20T00:17:56","guid":{"rendered":""},"modified":"2011-07-20T00:17:56","modified_gmt":"2011-07-20T00:17:56","slug":"the_republican_party_looks_to_losers_to_tell_them_how_to_win","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2011\/06\/20\/the_republican_party_looks_to_losers_to_tell_them_how_to_win\/","title":{"rendered":"The Republican Party Looks to Losers to Tell Them How to Win"},"content":{"rendered":"<section>\n<p>RUSH: Let me say up front, I don\u2019t have anything against Jon Huntsman, folks, and I\u2019m not endorsing anybody. I\u2019m not trying to send any kinda subliminal or other message that you ought to not like anybody at this stage in the Republican field. That\u2019s not the point here. What\u2019s going on is so <img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/live-rush-limbaugh.pantheonsite.io\/wp-content\/uploads\/01125108.Par.89380.ImageFile.jpg\" width=\"340\" height=\"221\" class=\"alignright\"\/>predictable, and it\u2019s frustrating as it can be. The reason why the media on both sides, the Drive-Bys and even the inside-the-Beltway conservative intelligentsia, there is this paranoid belief that independents do not like conservatives. It\u2019s no more complicated than that. It is the belief that if Republicans are to get the votes of independents that they have to nominate a moderate. <\/p>\n<p>Now, the elections of 2010 throw cold water on that theory. You know it as well as I know it. It\u2019s BS. But it\u2019s a holdover, it\u2019s etched in stone, it\u2019s political consultant 101. And the reason &#8212; you put two things together to understand this. If you are a political consultant and your objective, your job is to get somebody elected, then you automatically are going to believe that your work is made up of appealing to and persuading 20 to 25% of the voting population. The rule of thumb is that 40% of the voters are gonna go Democrat, 40% are going to go Republican, and the remaining 20%, the great undecideds who are smarter than everybody else, these are the wonderful moderates, the wonderful independents. You know, these people, you go to the library and you read all about \u2019em, you\u2019ve seen the book, Great Moderates in American History. I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve seen that book. I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve seen Great Independents in American History. You\u2019ve read those books, I\u2019m certain. <\/p>\n<p>The theory is therefore that if I, as a consultant can get you elected, I have to do it by getting that 20% to vote Republican, and they\u2019re not gonna vote Republican if you\u2019re conservative, and that\u2019s what they believe. They genuinely believe it and then coupled with the fact that they themselves don\u2019t like conservatism or conservatives. It\u2019s because of the principle, you know, conservatives are conservative and they arrive at that intellectually. There\u2019s nothing chosen as a matter of convenience in a conservative. A conservative is there because it\u2019s in his heart, in his gut, and his soul. It\u2019s not something that\u2019s been calculated. Every other political position is calculated, even being a moderate, but particularly especially being a liberal. That is a calculated position. It is this devotion to principle which scares everybody else and the confidence that comes with being attached to your principles and core beliefs. It frightens people. <\/p>\n<p>So that\u2019s why throughout the media today, everywhere, ours and theirs, the Second Coming is announcing tomorrow, Jon Huntsman. And it\u2019s not so much that Huntsman is the Second Coming because there\u2019s anything particularly special about Huntsman. It\u2019s that he\u2019s a moderate. Now, I know and you know that the vaunted independents voted conservative in droves in November. Now, you might be shouting at your radio,&#8221;They might have voted conservative, but that wasn\u2019t the choice they made, Rush, they chose to vote opposed to Obama.&#8221; Okay, fine, I\u2019ll take that. They voted against Obama. What was the alternative? The alternative was conservatism. I thought the independents didn\u2019t like conservatives. I\u2019ve always been told the independents don\u2019t want to go anywhere near the social issues. They made a beeline for \u2019em. &#8220;No, they didn\u2019t, Rush, they made a beeline away from Obama.&#8221; Yeah, but they ended up someplace in doing this. <\/p>\n<p>There is a mental block, folks. Certain Republicans are content to lose elections if they maintain allegiance to the belief that conservatism will turn off moderates. It\u2019s the most amazing thing to witness and it\u2019s frustrating at the same time because these are the people that lose elections. We\u2019ve got evidence and data, overwhelming, voluminous in its amount, and still the Republican establishment will not accept that the coveted independents are conservative on every single issue according to polling data. According to polling data Obama\u2019s in the minority on every issue. And if you look where the independents are, they are in the majority, and they are with the majority on every single issue. So we have to explain this, and then run the risk in explaining it of sounding defensive, and that\u2019s the last thing that I want to do. <\/p>\n<p>So here they\u2019re going out, talking to John Weaver. I\u2019ve got nothing against John Weaver. I don\u2019t know him; I don\u2019t think if I saw him I would recognize him. All I know is he ran McCain\u2019s campaign, and we know how that went. By the way, speaking of McCain. Folks, McCain\u2019s out there saying all these wildfires out in Arizona were started by illegals. McCain also went on Meet the Press yesterday and started ripping the entire Republican presidential field for being from the Pat Buchanan wing, for being isolationists, you know, wanting to enforce the War Powers Act and make sure that what we\u2019re doing in Libya is legal. I mean it\u2019s breathtaking. It\u2019s like McCain\u2019s a dog and every Republican\u2019s a fire hydrant and here he comes. Get the picture? I\u2019m thinking what is going on here? There aren\u2019t any isolationists out there on our side. There are people who want to know what vital American interests are at stake. <\/p>\n<p>I have a simple question for Senator McCain and the Democracy Project types. If your belief is the United States is gonna go anywhere, I mean this quote about he said Khadafy was on the verge of people\u2019s doorsteps or their front doors and is gonna come in and run around and kill people and we should not let that happen. We gotta stop Khadafy at every chance. Well, why, Senator, and the rest of you in this Democracy Project, why are you not urging military action in Sudan? Why are you not urging military action in the Congo? If it is our place in every case to use our military where there are human rights violations on this kind of scale, where\u2019s your demand for our intervention there? If Congo and Sudan are not right for our intervention, we gotta know why. Libya is good? Libya fits the bill? Okay, tell us why. We need a clearer explanation and definition from all these people. And I also like to know what they mean by isolationists. <\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/live-rush-limbaugh.pantheonsite.io\/wp-content\/uploads\/01125108.Par.4584.ImageFile.jpg\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\" class=\"alignright\"\/>Myself, I, El Rushbo, have supported our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. I\u2019ve been on the fence about Libya \u2019cause I don\u2019t really know, other than payback for terrorism, which we\u2019ve already done, I don\u2019t know what vital US interest is there. If somebody can explain. I think it\u2019s Obama using the issue to show his toughness and guts. But if Libya is the example here that defines isolationist, let\u2019s get some definitions for it. Now, these are the people who are telling us who we need in our next nominee. <\/p>\n<p>And then here\u2019s the second paragraph: &#8220;A lot of political handicappers &#8212; particularly those on the left, who tend to view the Republican base as monolithic and somewhat medieval &#8212; doubt that Huntsman can even win enough delegates to earn himself a decent speaking slot at the convention.&#8221; I love the lingo here. &#8220;Some of the more sober-minded Republican insiders in Washington and New Hampshire, though, persuaded me &#8211;&#8221; this is Matt Bai writing this New York Times Magazine piece on Huntsman, &#8220;&#8211; that by distancing himself from some of the party&amp;rsquo;s more populist influences&#8230;&#8221; Now, who would those be? Who would the Republican Party\u2019s most populist influences be? If he can distance himself from them, &#8220;Huntsman was giving Republican and independent voters an option that could not be so easily dismissed. This judgment has little to do with data and more to do with what Huntsman calls the vacuum in the Republican field. <\/p>\n<p>&#8220;Huntsman&amp;rsquo;s bet is that some critical mass of moderate Republicans and independents &#8212; and there are still plenty of both in New Hampshire &#8212; can be persuaded to rally around a less ideological candidate who isn&amp;rsquo;t going to get personal or shape-shift, even if they don&amp;rsquo;t love all of his positions. If he can instigate a McCainian uprising in New Hampshire, where the lack of a competitive Democratic race this year should make for a heavier turnout among independent voters on the Republican side than in either 2004 or 2008, the fuse might then burn right through South Carolina and Florida, where Mary Kaye grew up and where Huntsman has based his campaign. &amp;hellip; Is he just trying to get a little experience in the arena, in advance of 2016? Is he hoping for a bank shot to the vice presidency? Does he just want to be heard?&#8221; <\/p>\n<p>This is paragraph three of about 15 or 20 in this early morning piece from Politico analyzing what it all means that Huntsman\u2019s getting in the race. And he\u2019s a moderate, and this is what has them all excited because that\u2019s how you get the independents and they couldn\u2019t be more wrong. And again, Republican Party snatching sure defeat from the jaws of victory by enlisting the architects of defeat in previous elections, to tell us who the voters will vote for and who they won\u2019t. That\u2019s what we need. Lessons from losers. I don\u2019t mean that personally. For crying out loud, it happened. How many Super Bowl losing coaches get hired? Immediately after losing a Super Bowl, how many of them get hired? &#8220;That\u2019s our game plan. That\u2019s what we need. We need to get that coach that lost the game. That\u2019s what our organization\u2019s missing.&#8221; How often does that happen? It seems to be the Republican Party\u2019s way of doing things.<\/p>\n<p>BREAK TRANSCRIPT<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: Greenwich, Connecticut, this is Gideon. Thanks so much for waiting. Hi.<\/p>\n<p>CALLER: Rush, two things. I wanted to defend RINOs and also give you a quick tea review. In regard to RINOs &#8212; which we all know is &#8220;Republicans-in-name-only&#8221; &#8212; at least on the state level here in Connecticut, our RINO was Governor Jodi Rell; and it turns out she was the single bulwark against this tidal wave of taxes which we now have facing us enacted because of Governor Malloy. So, at least on a state level, I think you can make the case for, in a state like Connecticut &#8212; which, with California, were the two states that did not go along with the Tea Party, shall we say &#8220;wave.&#8221; They completely resisted, went the opposite direction. At least here in Connecticut, a RINO governor was very valuable.<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: Well, okay. There\u2019s no hard and fast rule that happens without exceptions, and I\u2019m not talking specifically and exclusively of RINOs here. There are moderate Republicans who are not RINOs. The real RINO is the full-fledged, unadulterated, no-doubt-about-it, liberal Republican &#8212; and the problem with them is that they end up destroying or corrupting or confusing the definition of what and who a Republican is, in addition to whatever mistakes they make policy-wise.<\/p>\n<p>CALLER: Yeah, I get it. And plus, as you\u2019ve said, it\u2019s just perhaps they take us on a slower ride down the destructive path or the failed path of socialism. <\/p>\n<p>RUSH: Exactly.<\/p>\n<p>CALLER: It\u2019s a slower road, but it ends in the same place.<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: And, of course, it\u2019s all based on a fallacy. What do you think the history is, where did it begin, this notion that independents won\u2019t vote for right-wingers, that independents won\u2019t vote for conservatives? Where did that start?<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/live-rush-limbaugh.pantheonsite.io\/wp-content\/uploads\/01125108.Par.44878.ImageFile.jpg\" width=\"300\" height=\"247\" class=\"alignright\"\/>CALLER: I can\u2019t imagine, because obviously they voted in droves for Ronald Reagan.<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: Exactly.<\/p>\n<p>CALLER: He was portrayed at extreme.<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: So it had to be before that rebuke, right?<\/p>\n<p>CALLER: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: Who was it? It was Goldwater! That\u2019s how old this is.<\/p>\n<p>CALLER: Oh, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: This dates back to Goldwater in 1964, but since then (you can look this up) no real conservative has lost a national election. Here are the Republican losers: Gerald Ford, Bush 41, Bob Dole, and McCain. They\u2019re not conservative. (interruption) What did you say, Snerdley? Right. They\u2019re total moderates. They were the ones who we were told were gonna get the independents and finally get the independents vote for Republicans. The claim that independents won\u2019t vote for conservatives is something that\u2019s a holdover from Goldwater in 1964. That\u2019s how wrong it is. That\u2019s how embedded it\u2019s been in people\u2019s minds and how it\u2019s been passed down generation after generation, but it\u2019s bohunk.<\/p>\n<p>CALLER: All right, now, the tea.<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: The tea!<\/p>\n<p>CALLER: <a xhtml:id=\"\/content\/home\/daily\/site_062011\/content\/01125109\" href=\"\/\/\/home\/daily\/site_062011\/content\/01125109.html\">Two if By Tea<\/a>. I ordered it, and three days later it arrived.<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: That\u2019s how it should happen.<\/p>\n<p>CALLER: It\u2019s a good operation &#8212; a very, very good operation. This tastes exactly like tea you would make at home, I have to agree. I\u2019m not a paid announcer. I bought it because I wanted to support the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.mc-lef.org\/\">Marine Corps &amp; Law Enforcement Foundation<\/a>. Plus, I have to support Rush Limbaugh because if I don\u2019t do it and your listeners don\u2019t, then you get in a bad mood possibly or worse and we lose you.<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: (chuckling)<\/p>\n<p>CALLER: So we got to help you along. That\u2019s the #1 responsibility.<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: Well, whatever works. Heh-heh-heh.<\/p>\n<p>CALLER: The tea. The tea is excellent. I actually like this, and I don\u2019t like artificial sweetener. But your artificially sweetened tea has a slightly stronger tea flavor than the regular tea.<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: I\u2019m glad you noticed that because in our testing, the testers &#8212; there were two of them, Kathryn and me; and we told ourselves with every different formulation, &#8220;You better be able to taste the tea in this even after pouring it over ice. After it gets diluted a little bit with ice, there must be a tea flavor here, otherwise this isn\u2019t gonna work,&#8221; and I\u2019m glad you noticed that because we worked extremely hard making sure that with the raspberry, the tea flavor was going to stand up and the sweeteners were not to overpower the tea. So you\u2019re making my day here. <\/p>\n<p>CALLER: I bet.<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: You actually came up with something that we worked very hard on that matters greatly to this. Thanks very much.<\/p>\n<p>BREAK TRANSCRIPT<\/p>\n<p>RUSH: It is true, folks &#8212; and I think this is even profound when you stop now and remember this &#8212; that the Republican Party is a party that is handcuffing itself to a belief that isn\u2019t true. The Republican Party is dooming itself to defeat after defeat after defeat by tying itself to something that isn\u2019t true. Now, I do believe that a number of elite Republicans want it to be true, because I think a lot of elite Republicans don\u2019t like conservatives. We\u2019ve been through the reasons why. We know that it makes \u2019em nervous &#8212; &#8220;the social issues&#8221; do, particularly abortion &#8212; but when you run a party and your job is winning elections, and you insist on getting it wrong, then there\u2019s something that needs to be looked at very seriously. I always wondered myself: Whereis this coming from? <\/p>\n<p>Because recent evidence is always to the contrary. We nominate these &#8220;surefire&#8221; moderate winners and they go down in flames, and they never even really have a chance &#8212; and the cycle repeats: They are loooved by the media. I mean, the new McCain is Huntsman. Before Huntsman it was Mitch Daniels, and Mitch Daniels\u2019 wife said she didn\u2019t want any part of it so Mitch got out before he got in. Huntsman\u2019s getting in, and these people are having orgasms (whatever they\u2019re like for these people). The last time independents did not vote for a conservative in a national election was 1964. The Goldwater race! But since then no real conservative has lost a national election. Again, to go through the list of losers for you: Gerald Ford, Bush 41\u2019s reelect&#8230; <\/p>\n<p>Remember Bush 41 won his first campaign promising to emulate Reagan, promising to give four more years of the previous eight years of Ronaldus Magnus. Then we had Dole and we had McCain &#8212; and there\u2019s another factor with all these guys. It was their &#8220;turn,&#8221; too. They had been loyal soldiers. They had been loyal to the cause. They had sacrificed. It was their turn to go for the gold &#8212; and they fit the bill. &#8220;Yes, they were not embarrassing. They were serious people. They didn\u2019t want to talk about the social issues.&#8221; All they did was go out and lose. The winners: Ronaldus Magnus and George W. Bush. In the Nixon campaigns, the one that he won, those were campaigns where (believe me), he was counseled to articulate conservatism. He didn\u2019t govern that way, but he ran that way. (interruption)<\/p>\n<p>Law and order, yeah. Law and order was a big thing in \u201968. He was gonna get us out of the Vietnam war. There were a number of factors there with Nixon. Now, in the 1964 campaign, there was a lot going on during that campaign as you all know. We were coming off the assassination of John F. Kennedy. We are at the height of post-World War II prosperity. There has never been a blowout like that since for the Democrat Party. That was a genuine blowout, and it\u2019s interesting: The Republican Party is allowing itself to be shaped by the 1964 race and, alternately, by Watergate. Those two things are indelibly imprinted in the collective minds of Republican leadership. When it comes to independents voting moderate Republican, they couldn\u2019t be more wrong. <\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s breathtaking to sit here and watch these guys recruit loser after loser after loser and then go out and find consultants who are the architects of loss after loss after loss &#8212; and then to have us be told that these are the guys that know what they\u2019re doing, that you (meaning us, you and me in this audience) are what\u2019s wrong. We represent the problem. &#8220;You pro-lifers, you people that go to church, you\u2019re the problem! You embarrass us. You\u2019re not serious. Plus, some of you like Palin! That\u2019s even worse,&#8221; and so the architects of defeat just keep triumphing and heading on down the pike. These RINOs&#8230; The guy from Connecticut called. The RINOs, they\u2019re not moderates. They\u2019re leftists. <\/p>\n<p>This business of calling us right-wingers? Folks, the way the ideological turf has been carved up today, I don\u2019t think we\u2019re right-wingers. I think we are mainstream. I think we are in the middle of common sense. The midterm elections last November should have proved that once and for all. What were the issues? The people who voted in those elections November had a clear alternative. They knew they had two years of a far-left, near socialist administration &#8212; and they showed up in droves to say they don\u2019t want it. They didn\u2019t want any part of it and don\u2019t want any more of it, and yet look! Even now the press, in desperation, publishes story after story that says, &#8220;You know what? The voters have changed their minds. The voters are regretting what they did in November.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Really, you can see these stories. There\u2019s no evidence for it. They\u2019re just saying it, and it works with the Republican elite, the intelligentsia. It works; makes \u2019em nervous. In addition to everything else, you can\u2019t put too much emphasis on the effect on that 1964 election of the JFK assassination. He was behind in the polls. The reason he went to Dallas and was on that trip was because, at that stage, he was looking at a loss &#8212; a reelection loss &#8212; in the polling data at the time. Now, those of you who weren\u2019t alive then hearing me say that probably can\u2019t believe that, but don\u2019t doubt me. &#8216;Cause JFK was&#8230; Camelot had not been created. Camelot came about after the assassination. All this buildup, there was paranoia and fear that John Kennedy was bungling everything. Bay of Pigs. Bobby wasn\u2019t doing so hot with the Mafia. &#8220;Destined to lose,&#8221; was one of the trip\u2019s purposes, trip to Dallas.<\/p>\n<p>END TRANSCRIPT<\/p>\n<p>*Note: Links to content outside RushLimbaugh.com usually become inactive over time.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>RUSH: Let me say up front, I don\u2019t have anything against Jon Huntsman, folks, and I\u2019m not endorsing anybody. I\u2019m not trying to send any kinda subliminal or other message that you ought to not like anybody at this stage in the Republican field. That\u2019s not the point here. What\u2019s going on is so predictable, [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":25,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","ngg_post_thumbnail":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-19244","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.0 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>The Republican Party Looks to Losers to Tell Them How to Win - The Rush Limbaugh Show<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2011\/06\/20\/the_republican_party_looks_to_losers_to_tell_them_how_to_win\/\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:title\" content=\"The Republican Party Looks to Losers to Tell Them How to Win - The Rush Limbaugh Show\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:description\" content=\"RUSH: Let me say up front, I don\u2019t have anything against Jon Huntsman, folks, and I\u2019m not endorsing anybody. I\u2019m not trying to send any kinda subliminal or other message that you ought to not like anybody at this stage in the Republican field. That\u2019s not the point here. What\u2019s going on is so predictable, [&hellip;]\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:image\" content=\"https:\/\/live-rush-limbaugh.pantheonsite.io\/wp-content\/uploads\/01125108.Par.89380.ImageFile.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"admin\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"17 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2011\/06\/20\/the_republican_party_looks_to_losers_to_tell_them_how_to_win\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2011\/06\/20\/the_republican_party_looks_to_losers_to_tell_them_how_to_win\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"admin\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/#\/schema\/person\/911066e449df26406b107ca78cbbde0b\"},\"headline\":\"The Republican Party Looks to Losers to Tell Them How to Win\",\"datePublished\":\"2011-07-20T00:17:56+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2011\/06\/20\/the_republican_party_looks_to_losers_to_tell_them_how_to_win\/\"},\"wordCount\":3512,\"commentCount\":0,\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2011\/06\/20\/the_republican_party_looks_to_losers_to_tell_them_how_to_win\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/live-rush-limbaugh.pantheonsite.io\/wp-content\/uploads\/01125108.Par.89380.ImageFile.jpg\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2011\/06\/20\/the_republican_party_looks_to_losers_to_tell_them_how_to_win\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2011\/06\/20\/the_republican_party_looks_to_losers_to_tell_them_how_to_win\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2011\/06\/20\/the_republican_party_looks_to_losers_to_tell_them_how_to_win\/\",\"name\":\"The Republican Party Looks to Losers to Tell Them How to Win - 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