RUSH: Just a couple more things on the VA and I want to move on to other things. The one common denominator in all of the things Obama is so mad about is Obama himself. If you stop and think about it, the one common denominator — it seems to me, anyway — in all of the things Obama is so mad about, is Obama himself. I mean, he pretends to be angry now but in a few months, you know, after the midterms, he’ll announce there wasn’t even a smidgen of corruption at the VA. Just like there wasn’t a smidgen of corruption at the IRS.
This is how these things are dealt with, folks. He’s gonna look into this. He’s got the low-information crowd now believing, accepting, that this is unacceptable. It’s intolerable. He’s mad about this. This is not the way to treat people. This isn’t equality. This isn’t fairness. Even if the left is not that crazy about uniformed military personnel, still. So he’s mad. He’s properly mad. He’s gonna get to the bottom of it. And he will. And just like he is now saying about the IRS that there was not a smidgeon of corruption — didn’t he say that to O’Reilly? Yeah, there was not a smidgen of corruption at the IRS. And after this mythical investigation at the VA, there will not be a smidgen of corruption found there.
Washington Post story yesterday: “This memo shows that the VA knew of records manipulation in 2010 — Robert Petzel resigned last week as the top health official for the Department of Veterans Affairs, just one day after testifying before a Senate committee that he knew VA health clinics were using inappropriate scheduling practices as early as 2010.” Never mind that Petzel is another of the Obama administration’s patented phony resignations. We previously noted Petzel had announced his retirement last September. Obama announced his replacement in early May of this year, this month.
So less than three weeks ago Obama announced Petzel’s replacement, and yet Obama last week is running around acting like something had to be done and this guy had to be fired, and we’ve done it, we’ve replaced him, and we’re moving forward. He resigned. He announced his retirement last September. Now, this memo the Washington Post is talking about that shows the VA knew of records manipulation in 2010. It spells out precisely what the VA hospitals were doing in order to cover up how they were not meeting their Obama-mandated goals.
Now, that’s another point in the phoniness of this administration. They publish and are very public about their new, improved, streamlined operation at, in this case, the VA. And they talk about how they’re gonna really make it better. Previous administrations had let it languish and let it fall by the wayside because they didn’t care or they weren’t sufficiently compassionate, but Obama is on the case and they are going to reenergize the VA and institute brand-new mandated goals. But that’s where it stops, because, you see, the reality is never the news. The intentions are the only thing that ever make the news, either before or after an event has happened.
So in this case the Regime mandates brand-new streamlined goals. “Yay! Yay!” And Obama gets credit for doing it just by announcing it. And that’s it. Then when it doesn’t happen, when the excrement hits the fan has it has now, then it’s time for Phase 2. “I am so mad about this. I can’t believe it. I’m not gonna tolerate it. We’re gonna get to the bottom of it,” blah, blah, blah, blah. This memo spells out precisely what VA hospitals were doing in order to cover up how they weren’t meeting Obama’s mandated goals, ’cause they couldn’t. But the mandated goals were not intended to be met. The mandated goals were just in existence for the purpose of the announcement of the mandated goals.
The mandated goals, in other words, served to, as far as people were concerned, actually achieve new goals. Whether they did or not didn’t matter. Obama announced his intentions, and that’s where it stops. Except records were kept, and the memo spells out exactly how the VA hospitals were covering up not meeting the goals. Petzel admitted he knew about that memo, and he says that efforts were made to put a stop to it, but he couldn’t cite any specifics that he did. Nobody was fired, despite Shinseki trying to make it sound like 6,000 people were fired. But nobody’s been fired. Nobody’s heads have rolled. None of that’s happened.
So it’s clear the VA had no problem with this going on because what was really going on was not the point. They were always attempting to cover up half-assed behavior with good intentions to fix it, is how it works in this administration. You go out and announce you got these massive new goals, massive new plans, gonna streamline, gonna improve it, and that’s it. Whether they happen or not is irrelevant. The credit to Obama accrues with the announcement of his intention to make it better. They knew the goals were not being met so they had to cover it up somehow. They had the secret waiting list, any number of things to make it look like Obama’s goals are being met, but they couldn’t be.
In fact, they’re probably doing what they thought Obama wanted done, just like the IRS people did. And just like anybody involved in Obamacare does. They’re probably out doing what they think Obama would want done, and that is cover up reality so that the image survives. (interruption) Right. It’s not about the veterans, folks. It’s not about the people involved. It’s not about their health care. It’s not about the streamlined goals. It’s about Obama and the perception of the administration.
That’s all it is, be it the VA, be it Obamacare, be it the IRS. I don’t care what it is, everything is about how Obama is doing. And if news surfaces that he’s not doing well, then that’s when the playbook of, “Oh, my God, this is going on? I had no idea. I just found out about it, and I’m as mad as you are.” is rolled out, which we got today on the VA. But there’s a memo that basically shows the VA knew that these records are being manipulated all the way back as far as 2010, probably prior to that.
From our 50,000-watt blowtorch affiliate in St. Louis, KMOX: “Dr. Jose Mathews says heÂ’s paying the price for being a whistle-blower at the VA hospital in St. Louis.
He didnÂ’t hold back as he told his story to KMOX. Mathews was head of psychiatry at the VA before he came forward to say that doctors were treating only half the mental health patients they had the capacity to handle. After, he says he was promptly removed from his position and specifically instructed not to contact any of the psychiatrists he was leading.
This sounds like bullying, to me. And yet Eric Holder still refuses to have the DOJ investigate. Here you have the VA whistleblower in St. Louis, says he’s been demoted, says he’s been bullied because he came forward to say that doctors were treating only half the mental health patients they had the capacity to handle. He went off script. He risked blowing this entire image that Obama has all these wonderful intentions and cares so much about all of this.
“Even though he was re-located to a basement office, Mathews continues going to work at the VA as scheduled.”
RUSH: David, St. Petersburg, Florida. Great to have you. Glad you waited. Welcome to the program, sir. Hi.
CALLER: Well, thank you very much. Great points today. I am a brain and spine surgeon in Florida. I’ve worked in VA systems around the country for many years — I’ve been practicing almost 20 years — and I can tell you for sure that the vets are suffering. They’re undergoing neurological deficits and they are dying because of the wait they have to endure at the VA. There’s no question about it. The doctors and nurses there are great. There’s a lot of good employees there. But in the end it’s a bureaucracy, the bloated-government administration, and that is really hurting our vets.
RUSH: David, let me share with you something. I was given a heads-up by the staff. This always happens when I’m out on a particular day if it’s just one day. I ask, “Okay, what happened yesterday? What all do I need to know that might have happened on the program?” What I was told was there were a lot of people that called defending the VA yesterday, that the health care being doled out there is fine, that the treatment there is fine, that it’s simply a problem of getting to the treatment, is that the lines are so long. That’s the problem. Is that right?
CALLER: Yeah, that is correct. Now, I’m a private doctor. I worked in the VA in the past as a resident and as a professor, but right now they don’t have neurosurgeons, for instance. And even if they did, they’d still take forever. When I was in VA clinics as a neurosurgeon, it’d take months and months to come in for the most simple things that are easy to treat. So now they’ll send me vets ’cause our VA doesn’t have a neurosurgeon in the area. And they’ll have leg pain going on for a year or two that’s so easy to treat with a simple operation, or their foot will be partially paralyzed ’cause they didn’t get a simple operation, or the worst case I had recently was a person with an obvious brain tumor that was just messed around with was so long, and they died.
RUSH: Doctor, why are there doctor shortages at the VA? I mean, the government spends money it doesn’t have on other things, why not stock the VA fully with doctors?
CALLER: Well, because they spend the money on bureaucracy, all right? They spend the money on management, cost control, computers, more administrators and bigger buildings. It’s all part of the government, you know? The real simple solution, you know, is let’s put the patients and the vets first and the government last. Give the vets a voucher. Let ’em find the care elsewhere, and it will be fine. But that’s not what the liberals want. They want big government, which is why they say put the “funds” into it.
RUSH: No, I understand it, but my question is. The nature is a little bit different. We don’t have money that we’re spending now. The national debt is $17 trillion. The annual deficit’s about a trillion dollar. We’re spending money we don’t have, and every cabinet department has a budget. They all go over it; baseline budgeting guarantees that. You’re talking about allocation. Why stop at building new buildings and getting new computers? Why not also spend on care? If we’re gonna bust the budget, why not bust the budget getting doctors?
CALLER: Because they can’t afford the true market rate for doctors, what they should be paid and they also don’ts run a system that’s designed to deliver a high volume of care.
RUSH: But the government can afford anything it wants because it can print the money to pay for it, is my point.
CALLER: Yeah, I suppose. But in the end, all government systems run out of money. They always have to ration it. They always have to serve the bureaucracy first and the patients suffer and the doctors who serve them.
RUSH: Well, see, but that’s always selective because the idea that we’re busting budgets is old news. We’re spending money we don’t have anyway, so it’s a conscious reason why here.
RUSH: All right. Let me answer my own question. I’m best at that anyway. Because, A, it’s a good question, B, the answer’s even better, and C, this is the kind of thing that the network’s gonna play for their guests to react to on future shows. My question to the good doctor we just had on the phone. If every government agency is over budget — and it is, by default. I mean, we’re spending a trillion dollars a year that we don’t have. We’re nowhere near balanced, so it doesn’t matter. Every agency is over budget.
So my question to him was, it really doesn’t matter, does it, what the budget is? They’re gonna spend it. So when they spend it, why don’t they spend it on staffing the VA with doctors? And if the answer comes back, “Well, there’s a limit, you know, there’s a budget and we can only spend –” No. That doesn’t wash, folks. The budget doesn’t matter. This government is spending on whatever it wants to spend. Look at Obama’s budgets that are submitted. I don’t care if they’re DOA. I don’t care if they never get voted on. Look at the desire. There is no spending limit. There is no real limitation on spending. That’s why the Tea Party exists. You know it and I know it.
Left to their own devices, these people would spend money without any regard for the consequences, in a fiscal sense. So why do they not actually spend it on doctors? And here comes the controversial answer: That’s not the purpose of government. The purpose of government from the left’s standpoint is not results. If it were, LBJ’s Great Society wouldn’t be a dismal failure.
Remember, we’re not supposed to look at the results of liberal programs, are we? There aren’t any that are successful. Every social program to come down the pike that the Dems, liberals have authored, has busted up minority families, destroyed the border system in this country. I mean, it’s a disaster. The social fabric, the cultural rot taking place in this country is again the result of policy put in place by Democrats. But with what? Good intentions, yes, we are only supposed to judge the good intentions. Social Security, Medicare, War on Poverty, you name it, all of ’em are disasters, and because of that, we’re only supposed to look at the intentions.
So again, let’s come to the VA just to pick — and this would be true of any agency. When it comes to the VA, results are really not the purpose of government. What does a liberal want to run government for? Power, exactly right. Growing government. The caller, the doctor, the good doctor had it right. They spend the money on what? Themselves. They hire more of them. They hire more administrative employees.
They do that with education. What are we spending per student in most states? New Jersey, 20 grand per student? Look at the results. Where’s the money going? Additional administration. Buildings for the administration. Cars and transportation and expense accounts for the administration. New computer systems for the administration. Grant money for the administration to give to climate scientists to come back with a verdict that man is causing global warming.
Same thing at the VA. What are they doing? They are spending their money to grow the size of the agency. Same thing at the EPA. What are they doing? Now, at the EPA, the FDA, there is a little difference ’cause when you say they don’t care about results, there are exceptions to everything, and at the EPA particularly they care about results, mandated, undemocratically mandated official regulations they impose. They care about the results of their demands or limits or regulation on and me and how we must live.
The VA’s got a lot of good people in it, but it’s always the case, the mind-set of the people that run it, when you have a Democrat like Obama particularly, in office, results are not what matters. It’s a real simple question. If you are gonna go over budget. If money really doesn’t matter, and isn’t that, when you get down to it, the thing? Money doesn’t matter. They’ll always say, “Well, budget, we can’t hire more doctors, budget limitation.” But they never use that excuse to say they can’t grow the size of the agency.
So if you’re going to spend money you don’t have anyway, why not spend it on getting more brain surgeons, spinal surgeons. If that’s what the VA needs, get ’em in there. Why not get a bigger bang for the buck on actual medical care in the VA? Why not do that? I don’t know, but it’s a choice. If they’re going to spend more money than they have anyway, this is my point.
The analogy I could best give you would be the House bank. If members of Congress could go write personal checks for any amount of money regardless what was in their account, then it really didn’t matter what their salaries are. If a member of Congress earned $150,000 and has $5,000 in the bank, but can go write a personal check for cash for 25 grand, on credit with the assumption it will be paid back, then doesn’t need the money to cover the check. Okay, well, same thing with every cabinet-level department. The money doesn’t matter.
If we’re over budget anyway and if there’s no concern for being over budget, and there isn’t, when’s the last time anybody submitted a budget with less money than the year before? There really isn’t any concern about this. Hello, that’s why the Tea Party exists. So my only point is, if the money really isn’t an obstacle, it’s just something you pretend is for the consumption of the public — you have to make the public think you care about the budget. You have to make them think you care about federal spending, but when the rubber meets the road, you don’t care. You’re spending on whatever. It’s not yours, and that’s the fun of being in government, unlimited amounts of money and just go spend it.
Look at the stimulus. Shovel-ready projects, all this, that’s not what the money was spent on, was it? Seventy-five percent of the money went to unions to keep those people employed so they’d pay dues so the money would come back to Democrat campaign coffers. It was a money-laundering scheme. The first stimulus package was a Democrat money-laundering scheme. It wasn’t used to rebuild schools or bridges or roads or any shovel-ready project.
They just wanted the money, and by expanding that spending in one swoop by almost a trillion dollars, what happened to the budget baseline? It went up by a trillion dollars. The baseline went up, giving everybody, every department more money to spend whether they need it or not. But if there is never an effort to balance the budget, then what does it matter if you go over budget by a dollar or $10 trillion? Well, the only limiting factor is what you think you can get away with. And there may be a little bit of conscience, but more likely a political calculation.
So if there’s no real concern for the budget, if there’s no real concern for going over budget, if you’re going to spend money that you don’t have anyway at the VA, and if you’re gonna spend that money on something other than doctors and patient care, then what are you doing? Well, you’re obviously not concerned with results, medical results. You’re doing something else with the money. You’re growing the administration. You’re providing more jobs for fellow traveling liberals.
You’re providing more administrative jobs to get more career liberals in the bureaucracy that are never gonna be fired once they’re hired. They can’t be, not political-appointee jobs. You’re growing it. Put more liberals to work that come out of college with this degree or that degree, or maybe don’t have any degree. Just hire ’em. This is how you grow government. This is how you expand your influence of your department. It’s the same thing with the IRS or whatever agency it is. This is why it matters to me who wins elections.
This is why conservatism versus liberalism matters when it comes to spending and responsible spending and responsible budgeting and so forth. This is just we’re out of control here. But even with all the money that we’re spending — and it’s incomprehensible the amount of money we’re spending — look at the lack of results we’re getting for it. For crying out loud, with all the money we’re spending on “creating jobs,” why aren’t they ready?
With all the money we’re spending growing the economy, why isn’t growing?
With all the money we’re spending on you name it, why isn’t it happening?
Well, there are many reasons. A, government can’t do all those things. But, B, they’re not spending the money on those things. They didn’t spend it on shovel-ready jobs, rebuilding roads and bridges, and the precious schools. Liberals spend the money on growing the actual infrastructure of government. They create new jobs for nameless, faceless, loyal liberal troops to populate the expanding government. True believers. They’re ideologues to the hilt. If they really cared and they’re gonna go over budget anyway, why not pay some doctors?
RUSH: This is Joanne in Virginia Beach. Great to have you on the EIB Network. Hi.
CALLER: Hi, Rush. So, after the speech today, I’m sure everything’s gonna be magically fixed at the VA, because, one, he’s had a meeting; two, he’s gotten really, really mad; three, he’s had a press conference; four, he’s going to investigate. So it’s got to be magically fixed, right?
RUSH: That probably… No. I don’t think that is what’s gonna. I think what’s gonna happen is that after the midterms, they will announce the results of the investigation and they will say that there was not a smidgeon of corruption found.
CALLER: Oh, I’m sure you’re correct, but I just found it infuriating this morning when he got on and started with his nonsense, “I’m thinking, nothing’s gonna be done. Why does he even bother? Why waste our time?”
RUSH: That’s what the CNN reporter said. This is what’s funny. The CNN reporter who’s been following this today couldn’t believe Obama. “What do you mean you, you need investigate? This is real! This is happening! What do you mean?” He couldn’t believe it. He was expecting Obama to come out and really do something about this. Really, for some reason, folks, it’s mysterious. For some reason the Drive-Bys are worried about this one and they’re looking their leader to make this go away. (interruption)
What, Mr. Snerdley? What’s the… (interruption) Mmm-hmm. (interruption) Mmm-hmm. (interruption) Well… (interruption) All right. The question is, isn’t all of this kind of beside the point? Because isn’t the truth that the VA, as constituted, can’t be fixed because the government cannot run something like health care, either for a finite group like America’s veterans, or the country at large? So therefore isn’t all of this just a smoke screen ’cause they can’t fix i?. They don’t know how to fix it.
The government is a good question. It’s an excellent question. But the truth of the matter is that for a significant number of Americans that doesn’t matter. All that’s going to matter is the appearance of effort, rooted in caring to try to fix it. Could you demonstrate for me? There are answers to this, but they’re very few. I want to know: When was the last time that you can recall a Democrat president being held accountable for failure, other than the Democrats losing a presidential election? (interruption) Lyndon Johnson. (interruption)
All right. That’s Vietnam.
Lyndon Johnson. But he wasn’t thrown out of office. He was losing an election. He was gonna lose the election. He got out of there ’cause he wasn’t gonna win reelection. Democrats are not held accountable for these failures. They survive on two things: The perception that they care and they’re trying combined with the image they’ve successfully created that we don’t care, that we don’t have compassion, that the free market cannot possibly care about what happens to people because in capitalism there’s pain and suffering, and nobody cares.
At least the Democrats care. They may screw everything up, but at least they’re trying. And that’s all Obama has to do with this. So you say, “Isn’t the big question the fact that it can’t be fixed because the people trying to fix it don’t know what they’re doing?” A, you are exactly right. B, doesn’t matter. All it needs to happen is at least as the country is constituted now, all that needs to happen is voters, enough voters need to see that Obama is.
Why do you think his modus operandi on every one of these scandals is to come out and tell everybody how he just found out about it. He didn’t know about it and how ticked off he is? What do you think the purpose of that is? He’s doing it because it’s working. If Bush were president and was happening, it would be precisely the first story on it would be because Bush doesn’t care. Bush sent these guys off to war to avenge his father and Saddam’s attempted assassination.
That’s the only reason Bush went into Iraq. He didn’t care what happened! Look, our troops were even accused of being rapists and terrorists by Democrats! Yeah, you had all these people saying that Petraeus was a liar before he even testified! Why? “‘Cause he didn’t care. He really didn’t care what happened to those troops! But Obama, he’s livid over this mistreatment.” This is what’s so frustrating. Look, I’m mayor of Realville, and I’m telling you this stuff really…
You know, I’m thinking, “How easy it would be for me if I can just survive on image.” (sigh) I couldn’t constitutionally do it.
RUSH: Baton Rouge, Louisiana. This is Larry, and you’re next. Thanks for calling. It’s great to have you on the program, sir.
CALLER: Hi, Rush. As a veteran myself, it’s an honor to speak to you.
RUSH: Thank you very much. Glad to have you out there.
CALLER: Listen, I have a theory that I’d like to ask you about. It’s about this VA scandal and how the administration will handle it. I’d like to hear your comment. I think instead of obfuscation and sidestepping, that the administration is actually gonna jump in with both feet — and for the long term — for three reasons. First of all, what’s happening right now is not an exclusive Obama problem. At least that’s what they’ll say, that these problems go back to the Bush and Clinton administrations.
Obama is going to try to continue to link today’s problems that go all the way back, and they can control the message. A second reason is the media is going to absolutely want to cover this as a real issue, because they can portray Obama as the reformer. And the administration, of course, will feed them that message. They want to report on anything that does not have the words “Benghazi,” “IRS,” or “Obamacare” in it. Of course by doing this they de-legitimize all these other scandals that we believe are important to cover. So I’m interested to know what you think about that.
RUSH: I think it’s got some credence to it. If I heard you right, what you think they’re gonna do is dig deep into creating the impression that they’re actually tackling this and are gonna try and fix it, because it’s a problem that predates Obama, so can’t be tied to him. But he’s the guy, you say, who is the reformer. He’s the guy that gets it fixed. The media desperately wants to report this because they love Obama, and they want to see him do well. They love the idea that a Democrat president can be positively linked to the military.
CALLER: That’s right.
RUSH: So then they announce this drastic action, these massive reforms to fix it, and the media applauds. “Oh, what a great guy Obama is!” Next, “What you mean about Benghazi?” is the reaction people have at the White House. They maybe tie up some new allegiance of the military to Obama and the Democrat Party. So you think they might actually do something substantively to fix this?
CALLER: Yes, and make it last for a long time so people forget these other issues.
RUSH: Well, here’s the only problem: Can they? Can they fix it?
RUSH: I actually think our last caller had a great point, and it would be something this Regime would possibly consider if they think they could pull it off in time for positive election results. Making it all the more plausible to me is, they don’t have anything really to run on in the midterms other than trying to get the black population mad at Republicans again over racism and getting single women/single mothers mad over the War on Women, the usual cultural depravity that they cite.
This could be something right down their pipe. I mean, it could be made to order, the problem with the VA. It’s already been established in a couple places that the problem predates Obama. The fact that he hasn’t done anything on it for five years is easily overcome by being the guy who finally addresses it. Remember, with a media as desirous as this one is to report successes where Obama is concerned, it won’t really take much for them to report overwhelming success. Remember, Obama gets credit simply for caring.
If he does a real good job of caring about this, and a real good job making it look like he’s really gonna get to the bottom of it — and if they arrange for some people who have been on the waiting list for a long time to actually get moved to the front and get treated — the media will be right there on that story. “Look at the dramatic changes Obama has brought about!” That’s all it would take, just a couple of those.
Get a couple of veterans. First you do the story and how long the poor guy’s been waiting. Incompetence here, incompetence there, fake waiting list there. Obama found out about it and was livid. He ordered immediate changes! He rolled up his sleeves! Next, you go back to the veteran as he’s being wheeled into surgery. “Yes, President Obama heard about my situation and my case, and look me now! He made it happen.”
That’s all you need, just two of those around September/October.
RUSH: Fascinating. Two people have sent me e-mails saying, “Rush, I know it sounded good, but that caller is wrong. They can’t fix the VA. Obama can’t fix it. They can’t even find any positive stories to tell about Obamacare. How can they go out and find a positive story about the VA?” Another guy said, “Rush, they can’t fix single payer. To do that would require vouchers and reopening health care to the private sector. Single payer doesn’t work.”
Now, now, now, now, now. With great respect to both complainants, you’re missing the point. They don’t have to fix anything. It doesn’t have to work. All they need is one story.
Here’s the deal. Obama announces Shinseki investigation — by the way, do you know, the Seattle Seahawks are at the White House today? Well, Obama just found out today they won the Super Bowl. The Seahawks showed up and he said (imitating Obama), “What are they doing here?”
“Mr. President, the Super Bowl winners always come.”
“Oh, wow. They won? Okay.” He wasn’t mad about it. He was mad he hadn’t been told. He wasn’t mad the Seahawks won the Super Bowl. (interruption) What? Oh, you mean the Bring Our Girls Home hashtag? I don’t think the girls are back home yet, no. But you see, who cares? It doesn’t matter. The hashtag worked. They care; we don’t.
Look, folks, they don’t have to fix the VA. Here’s all that has to happen. This is the caller’s point. Well, maybe it wasn’t his point. My point is bouncing off what he said. Shinseki is investigating, right? IG is investigating. That comes back, say, next week. Obama: “I’m livid, I’ve found out how bad. I’m announcing today this reform, that reform,” blah, blah, blah. And then in three weeks a soldier who had disappeared on the waiting list is found, gets treated. The cameras are there. He gets his treatment.
All they need is one example. Remember, the illusion is all that needs to happen in order to give the media the story that Obama has finally reformed the VA or is really making more progress than anybody else has ever made in fixing the problems. And you get the veteran involved to start singing the praises of the administration, how they really found out what was going on. When they found out what had happened with him they put people into motion, they got this thing fixed, and look at me now.
I agree, they can’t fix the VA because their policies are what broke it. I understand all that. But they can create the illusion that they’re making progress. Now, the caller, his point was, they could really reform it. They could go in there and really make hay and cause political problems, but I don’t think they even have to fix it. They just made it look like they’re really working hard trying to. Got a couple of good, good examples here to show progress, fast response time. Obama finds out about it on a Tuesday, and by the end of the month, look at what happened. Don’t discount it out of hand. It’s entirely possible.